Incantation Samurai Card or Turtle General Card?

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Introduction

Lots of players want to know if they should put an Incantation Samurai Card or a Turtle General Card on their gears. Just as reminder, here, in TalonRO, those cards have different effects:

- Incantation Samurai Card is a card that is put on a weapon and increases the ATK by 65. - Turtle General Card is a card that is put on a weapon and increases physical damage by 20%.

Well, to help a bit the players to make their mind about them, I analyzed their effects a bit, for different ATK rates.

Note: this comparative is made thinking on physical attacks, not on special attacks or skills. Check out the information about your skill first, to see if it uses a normal attack as its base (like Bash or Bowling Bash), or if it has its own damage formula (like Shield Chain). If you have doubts, check out first before deciding. You don't want to uncard later.

Sources and variables taken into account

First of all, the analysis is based on this source.

As you can see, there are quite a few steps to take into account when making an attack. The analysis will be centered in those 2:

7. Calculate BaseATK.

  1. BaseATK for melee weapons is STR + [STR/10]^2 + [DEX/5] + [LUK/5] + UpgradeBonus + ImpositioManus + ATKCards.
  2. BaseATK for missile weapons is DEX + [DEX/10]^2 + [STR/5] + [LUK/5] + UpgradeBonus + ImpositioManus + ATKCards.
  3. Monsters have a BaseATK of 0.

8. Calculate WeaponATK.

  1. WeaponATK for melee weapons is rnd(min(DEX*(0.8+0.2*WeaponLevel),ATK), ATK). In the case of a critical hit, it is ATK.
  2. WeaponATK for bows is rnd(ATK/100*min(ATK, dex*(0.8+0.2*WeaponLevel)), max(ATK, ATK/100*min(ATK, dex*(0.8+0.2*WeaponLevel)))) + rnd(0, ArrowATK - 1).

> In the case of a critical hit, it is ATK + ArrowATK.

  1. WeaponATK when weaponless (fist) is 0.
  2. WeaponATK for Monsters is simply rnd(minATK, maxATK) using the values shown in my monster list. In the case of a critical hit (due to a skill), use maxATK.
  3. In the case of Dual Wielded weapons, all cards apply to the right-hand weapon only.

9. Apply size modifier to Weapon ATK.

  1. Size modifiers vary by weapon.
  2. Monsters count as using Fist.
  3. Adult Players are of medium size, adopted child players are of small size.

And this:

21. Apply Damage Bonus modifiers.

  1. Damage Bonuses are based on Size, Race, Element and Special. Bonuses of the same type stack, while bonuses of differing types multiply together.

> The overall calculation can be expressed as: > (1+SizeBonusesTotal/100) * (1+RaceBonusesTotal/100) * (1+ElementBonusesTotal/100) * (1+SpecialBonusesTotal/100).

  1. Many cards and other equipment can give Size, Race or Element Bonuses.
  2. Currently, there are no known Special Bonuses.

As you see, there are many other variables involved. In most cases, they just multiply, so using a Incantation Samurai Card or a Turtle General Card won't have any extra effects on those. Soft DEF, Banes, Protections and other effects that add are influenced by the card you put them on. Turtle General, usually, increases the effects of those, as it multiplies later the added ATK or the reduced damage (i.e.: if you add 40 damage from Demon Bane, it gets increased later by a Turtle Geneal Card).

Unfortunately, I can't make a full analysis taking all variables into account, as I would need a multivariable analysis that would be pretty difficult to make, and that's not the purpose of this.

Incantation Samurai vs. Turtle General Comparative

So, taking into account those 2 steps, I made an excel using ATK vs. Damage output, using 1, 2, 3 or 4 Cards and taking into account all the different combinations:

The formula used is:

Damage = (ATK + 65 x S) x (1 + 0.2 x T)

Where:

  • Damage: damage related to steps 7, 8, 9 and 21.
  • ATK: BaseATK + WeaponATK x SizeModifier. Incantation Samurai Card applies to Base ATK, so it's Ok if you just add the effect to it, as it has been done.
  • S: number of Incantation Samurai Cards on the weapon.
  • T: number of Turtle General Cards on the weapon.

The excel worksheet was done considering the whole range of ATK values, from 50 to 600, in steps of 50. There were given, too, intersection points between different combinations.

Excel Worksheet

You might want to check out this excel file, just in case. I won't copy the tables here, but here are the graphs:

1 Carded Weapons

SamvsTG001.jpg

2 Carded Weapons

SamvsTG002.jpg

3 Carded Weapons

SamvsTG003.jpg

4 Carded Weapons

SamvsTG004.jpg

Intersection Points

I called intersection points the points where 2 lines of these graphs have same values. They are the points where the card configurations change.

Cards ATK
S - T 325
SS - ST 260
ST - TT 390
SSS - SST 195
SST - STT 325
STT - TTT 455
SSSS - SSST 130
SSST - SSTT 260
SSTT - STTT 390
STTT - TTTT 520

So, if you're considering to get 2 Cards and your total ATK is 300, the best configuration would be ST, to maximize damage.

Conclusions and recommendations

Well, first of all, I'd say, to think on the long run, not on the short one. Think about your character fully geared and then get your total ATK, with weapon equipped. Don't take into account the size of the enemy, as you will, in most cases, use that weapon for everything.

Once you have obtained your Base + Weapon ATK, just compare it on the excel, apply the formula (it's pretty easy to use), or compare using the graphs and/or Intersection Points.

The rule of the thumb here is that, the higher ATK you get, the best a Turtle General Card will be. For lower ATK values, people go for Incantation Samurai Card. For example, Snipers go for a doule or triple Turtle General combination, they don't use Incantation Samurai Card. They have high ATK values from their DEX, so the Turtle General Card is better for them.